Fatherhood - Striving Together
"Fatherhood - Striving Together" is a podcast dedicated to empowering fathers to lead their families with wisdom, strength, and faith. Hosted by three Christian fathers, including two pastors, the show explores the challenges and joys of fatherhood, offering practical advice rooted in biblical principles.
Each episode delves into essential topics like mentoring the next generation, building strong marriages, and guiding children in a rapidly changing world. Whether you're a new dad, a seasoned father, or someone considering fatherhood, this podcast is your companion on the journey of raising a family that thrives in faith and love.
Join us as we strive together to build homes on a solid foundation, where each member is nurtured and guided to live a life devoted to Christ. Discover insights, share experiences, and be a part of a community that believes in the power of fatherhood to shape the future.
Fatherhood - Striving Together
Elections and Faith in Family Life
Ever wondered how to navigate the tricky world of politics and presidential elections while raising a family grounded in biblical principles? This episode of the Fatherhood Driving Together podcast promises a thought-provoking exploration of just that. We kick off with a reflective journey from Joe Biden's dramatic shift to Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee, touching on personal stories like the impact of North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper's mask mandate during COVID-19. Our discussion emphasizes the importance of teaching children to view politics through a biblical lens, steering clear of strict party allegiances. Plus, we tackle how modern society's tendency to reduce politicians to memes challenges our ability to respect them as scripturally guided.
Relive the memories of the Bush-Gore election of 1999 and compare them to the tumultuous political climate of today. Hear about the unique entry of Donald Trump into the political arena, and the ongoing challenges in maintaining political decorum. We also discuss whether it's time to introduce an age maximum for presidential candidates, drawing parallels to mandatory retirement ages in other critical professions. Furthermore, we shed light on the overwhelming influence of media, political action committees, and money in shaping our political landscape, from the highest office down to local elections.
Lastly, we delve into the delicate balance between faith and politics within family dynamics. Reflecting on personal parenting approaches, we discuss how to ensure children understand Christ's sovereignty beyond political changes. The conversation also touches on the potential implications of political candidates leveraging religious support for their goals and the importance of educating children on politics from a biblical perspective. We wrap up with insights on how to navigate political issues through scripture, inspired by Tim Keller's reflections, and discuss the significance of instilling values based on biblical principles that transcend any political party or national identity. Join us for an enlightening discussion that aims to guide your political conversations with wisdom and faith.
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Welcome to the Fatherhood Driving Together podcast with your hosts Kyle Cox, jason Shuler, chris Virgilio and producer Aidan Brooks. Welcome everyone to episode two. This week we dive into the world of politics, and particularly the American presidential elections taking place this November and the lead up to them. It's important to point out that at the time of this recording, president Joe Biden was still the presumed nominee, whereas so much has happened in so little time and now Vice President Kamala Harris is the official Democrat nominee. My out, things change in this wild world of politics. Also, this episode marks the first appearance for producer Aiden Brooks, at least on microphone.
Chris Virgilio:Thanks again for joining us on Fatherhood Striving Together. I started asking about politics a couple years ago when we were going through all the COVID restrictions and our state governor here required that kids wear masks to school. And so we're in North Carolina. The governor was at the time, and still is, roy Cooper. And what was funny was my son, ethan, was in third grade that year when they had to wear masks exclusively like the entire year and it was a drag because you know, they're bringing home these masks every day and we're trying to wash them and we've got all these ridiculous face masks and, um, it was one of those taglines in our house where everything that went wrong was well, thanks a lot, roy cooper. You know, even with things that didn't make any sense, like we did it to be funny, like, ah, it's raining again today. Thanks a lot, roy cooper you it's all his fault.
Chris Virgilio:And it's so easy, in our circles too, to just feel like every political figure is either all good or all bad, and it's simply not true. Regardless of which side of the aisle you're on and who you voted for, there is no perfect candidate, there is no perfect party. There is no perfect party, there is no perfect system and there is no clear cut choice. You know of the two primary guys who are running for president this year, both of which have already been president there were things about both of them that it's like oh, I do not like this, like this is, this is where I'm throwing my support.
Chris Virgilio:And then you know the question comes then well, if you can't support either person, do you vote for a third party candidate? And I just feel like in our political climate, when we are so heavily on this side or that side, that it almost feels like a wasted vote to vote for someone other than the top two candidates, because, you know, a third party candidates never received a lion's share of the vote, and so it just it. It's a question that I'm having with my son's 11. Kyle, you've got two 12 year olds, and I feel like it's. It's a question that I'm having with my son's 11 kyle, you've got two 12 year olds, and I I feel like it's. It's something that we're we're talking about because these kids, believe it or not, not the next election, but the one after that they're going to be voting vote, and they're going to be voting for a president right yeah, and so they're not voting this time or the next time, but you know we're a couple of terms away from them.
Chris Virgilio:Their vote matters, their vote matters.
Chris Virgilio:And everybody's vote matters, and so I want I want my kids to think through politics through the filter of Scripture, and I think, instead of we are going to vote Republican or we are going to vote Democrat, or we're going to vote for Trump, we're going to vote for Biden, we're going to vote for RFK, we're going to vote for any of these guys, men or women, that are running for political office I think we have to put a higher priority on biblical principles and what Scripture says, as opposed to I'm just always going to vote Republican, I'm just always going to vote Republican or I'm just always going to vote Democrat. I think it's more important to align who we are with scripture, and that is the outflow of our vote.
Jason Schuler:I think the other thing, too, you just said is something that everybody's dealing with in politics. Well, roy Cooper, to blame him, that kind of sums up, like all politicians now, for lack of a better term, can become a meme.
Jason Schuler:Right, yeah.
Jason Schuler:And so, but with that, the downfall is there's a lack of respect for potential leaders, politicians in our country and I think, for our kids. They can get easily just kind of they get the joke and they can get sucked into that, but I think what can happen is when they get to be that voting age, like you said, Jason, you're just like two votes away from them having a vote that matters. Are they going to really respect the people in those positions? And I think we have to try to do our best to help them maintain a level of respect, despite the shortcomings of these guys, despite some of the just straight up stupidity that they say on the air now, because I think that's the biggest thing that politics has changed in such a quick amount of time that even when I, where I grew up, it was a highly political place because of being right around the Washington DC area, but there was still a kind of a honor and respect due to the other side of whatever you voted for. Now it's like everybody's just out there and they're all the butt of every joke. You know they are continually critiqued, they kind of take shots at each other, and so now we lose respect for them and it's just this never ending flow of I mean, are these guys really leaders that we respect? And that's what the scriptures teach us is to pray for our leadership. See them as God-given people. And yeah, I think it's really hard to see the authority that way when you know I'm just giving back to what I said Like my six-year-old was like, is Donald Trump going to be at the Charlotte Motor Speedway this weekend?
Jason Schuler:Not because he's interested in like his campaign numbers, because I think he thinks of him as a funny guy. Like he says angry things. He's got crazy slicked back hair. He's got crazy slicked back hair. He's got funny hand motions that are very easy to mimic and mock and he's seen people do it. I don't know. It just becomes.
Chris Virgilio:I want, just there's no honor in it and I think that's what we've got to teach our kids is to honor whoever God does allow to take charge in our country as a leader. They've definitely become cartoon characters, really, I think at this point. I mean, they're both memes in terms of at least the presidential candidates. So, aiden, I would imagine that this is your first presidential election that you get to vote in right, it is yes. So how does it feel? Do you just vote by memes? Basically, who's got the better ones?
Aidan Brooks:I was a lot more excited a couple years ago to be voting in a presidential election than I am now. At this point it's like I who cares? I don't. I don't feel good about voting for anyone. Aiden, how old are you?
Aidan Brooks:I'm 20 20 years old. So, producer aiden, first election and, like you said, jason, you have two options essentially, and both your options have already been president once.
Chris Virgilio:Yes, and you don't care, it doesn't matter, you're not excited.
Aidan Brooks:I'm not excited. I pretty much dread it, because I'm either going to have to vote for one or the other or a third party and not feel good about any of it, or I cannot vote and feel bad about that too. Are you, gen Z?
Chris Virgilio:officially. I think so. Yeah, so I'm a millennial Kyle, you're a millennial.
Chris Virgilio:Chris.
Chris Virgilio:You're, I'm on the fringe like an elder millennial. Yeah, so I feel like in your generation, the, the Gen Z generation I think a lot of you guys feel that way and I feel that way to some degree. It's a total hopelessness.
Chris Virgilio:I don't feel it to the level that you guys, as Gen Zers, do, and I think it's your generation that's probably going to change a lot of that narrative. I think is this the best we can do, like, think about this If you were to put the top three candidates on a stage together, you've got RFK, who a lot of people are saying is the third candidate. Like to listen to him speak makes me sad, like it just just his voice. He sounds awful and it's like well, that's not very presidential, even if his name is kennedy. And then you've got you've got biden, who over memorial day weekend like you were talking about the Lowe's Motor Speedway there in Charlotte Biden, at a at a Memorial Day rally, was listening to some gentleman speak and he's asleep.
Chris Virgilio:He falls asleep on the stage like eyes closed, head nodding, nodding, he's asleep and then trump is at, is at the charlotte motor speedway saluting during not the national anthem, during the, the performance of amazing grace that he's saluting and it's like these are the three guys, these are the guys, and and not even rfk as much as the other two. It's like this is the best that we've got. Like these guys are going to be like if they, either one of them that wins, they're going to be a president in their eighties. And you know, if you do any research on the founding fathers like my daughter just did a living wax museum and she chose Eliza Hamilton because of the Broadway Hamilton and she's looking into you know, washington and Madison and Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton like these guys, george Washington retired from being president before he was 50.
Chris Virgilio:Like he took his two terms and he went to Mount Vernon and he was out and he had not turned 50 years old and Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr were in their 20s. And I just feel like for you to say that, aiden, that has to be indicative of how your generation feels and with this being one of the larger generations that we've seen since millennials, who are all about change. With baby boomers dying off, I just feel like, between our generation and yours, we've got to figure out something better than what we've got.
Aidan Brooks:Right. I think Chris used the word hopeless. I would say hopeless or just even apathetic is kind of how I would describe my generation about politics, because it's really. I feel like there's not a lot of hope, at least in the current state, because neither of the candidates or none of the three, if you want to say that, are anywhere close to, I think, an average of what Americans think. None of them are anywhere close to my age, like I'm 20. I don't want to vote for an 80-year-old president because, regardless of what side of the aisle they're on, they still don't really understand what I feel like just because they're 60 years older than me.
Kyle Cox:Well, and what they, what they determined they're going to do, doesn't it could have a really short-term impact. Right, and you're thinking I've got 60 more years, hopefully, on this planet. As an American, you maybe have 10 to 15 tops. So what it? What you're doing are short-term gains. How are they really? Are you really thinking in my best interest, long-term, I mean? I think that is very true.
Kyle Cox:Here's the other thing that makes me wonder is are we getting to a point now where there is such a level of distrust of our government that people don't feel the necessity, or even, like I'll just throw it out there? I mean, whether you believe this or not, like people think that the last election got stolen, or some people think that this election is going to be rigged in some way? Does that permeate through to people's thinking, where people start to think well, what does it even matter if I vote third party? That's a throwaway vote Even if I vote one of the two main candidates? At the end of the day, there's a ruling class that's just going to. Are we just headed towards a precipice, almost, where people are just not going to care? And is this the end of, like, the democratic experiment? That's a really heavy question that probably none of us are like capable of answering.
Kyle Cox:But don't you kind of see like the writing is kind of on the wall Like again? I'm just just gonna turn to aiden, because he's the youngest person in the room, for a second. Do you feel you have an obligation to vote?
Aidan Brooks:I think I was. I feel like I have a social obligation to vote like a cultural obligation. Personally, I don't feel like my vote would do much either way and that, right there, kind of sums it all up.
Kyle Cox:Because aren't we, haven't we all been?
Chris Virgilio:told state, haven't we all been? Yeah, we, because aren't we?
Kyle Cox:haven't we all been told it's a battleground state? Yeah, we're a battleground state. Haven't we all been told that every vote matters and you're part of it's the people's government, right? But if the people start to say it doesn't really matter, then man, we've really. We've turned a corner now all of a sudden in how our political system works. And I'm not saying everybody's thinking that way, but I do hear that a lot. I hear a lot of people who are just apathetic and say I'm dissatisfied with the candidates, I'm apathetic towards it, and so now, where are we headed? And you know, as a parent, that makes me kind of just fearful for my kids. I want them to have a stability, because the other side of that is going to be chaos and instability and it's going to be essentially a ruling class that just determines everything, and that's not what we wanted our kids to grow up in or have to experience. But it could be the way that we're headed 20, 30 years down the road.
Chris Virgilio:So, aiden backtrack eight years. How aware eight years ago were you of the pending presidential election between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump?
Aidan Brooks:I was pretty aware. I think at that point I was kind of it was exciting. I don't know if it was because I was not like I didn't have a personal involvement in it or because it was just so built up, but I would say I would think for a lot of people my age, that was kind of the last one where we felt like, okay, there was maybe a little bit of hope Either way, whichever candidate you thought was going to win. And then obviously after that, when the whole stolen election and then you know riots and all that happened, I think that kind of crumbled basically all the hope I had left in the political system.
Chris Virgilio:Now for you, guys.
Kyle Cox:When you were 12 years old, obviously it's a little hard to remember exactly, but how aware do you think you were of presidential elections and things like that when we were 12, that would have been 1999. Okay, 1999. That means I remember.
Chris Virgilio:So that would have been Clinton For all of us that would have been Clinton.
Jason Schuler:Clinton was the tail end of Clinton. Clinton was in office George W. Bush, for me I guess it would be more. The newspaper said Al Gore won right.
Kyle Cox:Correct that's not the first time we've had a disputed election, by the way, yeah the hanging Chad I remember that In Florida.
Chris Virgilio:I remember Al Gore in Florida. I think that, compared to what we have now in terms of like contested elections and people and everything but even, it's not even close.
Kyle Cox:but yeah, but not even. It doesn't even touch with the 10-foot pole, because it was so civil like the other was disagreement, and yet people were angry about the hanging chads, but there wasn't like a riot, there wasn't a potential for people to like storm a government building. There wasn't any. There was. I don't I lived in dc at the time. Around dc there was never any threat where anybody ever felt like, oh, something's about to go down, right, right. Nobody felt that way. Nobody was so angry that you were just afraid this country is going to blow up.
Kyle Cox:It was just transition of power. We went from two terms of a Democratic president to a now Republican president, and I think you're right, aiden, like even in 2016, I think it. I think there was something to it. I think it did change a little bit because you had first, for the first time, donald Trump was not a statesman type of politician. He was kind of this businessman going rogue, upsetting the system, and I think people liked that. And then you had Hillary, who's kind of an establishment, you know, because of her last name and all the things she had been through. So I think there was something unique about that, but ever since then it's been. I mean, can I just say it's been a dumpster fire? I mean, is that okay?
Jason Schuler:to say that I think you're going to see more of that in the future elections, like, for instance, vivek Ramaswamy made a huge run this year and again like Trump, not a traditional politician. And so when you think about it I just did a quick little deep dive Biden right now, as we record this, is 81 years old. Trump is 77. So you're looking at a term where, should Biden win the election four years from now, would be 85 years old. Trump, four years from now, would be 81 years old. Listen to these ages. On July 4th 1776, george Washington, our first president, was 44 years old. John Adams was 40. Thomas Jefferson was 33. James Madison was 25. James Monroe, our fifth president, was 18. Aaron Burr was 20. Alexander Hamilton was 21.
Chris Virgilio:These are the founding fathers. Now, to be fair, washington didn't actually become president until like 1790-something. I think 89, 90, I think Somewhere. Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Jason Schuler:And so by the time John Adams became president, which you can look at the dates, if it was Washington, you know, for eight years, which would have been, you know, 14 years after this, James Madison was like 60. And he was old, Like everyone talked about how old he was like to replace Washington. Do we really want him Cause Washington was the leader of the country on July 4th in 1776. He was the clear cut commander in chief and leader and he's 44. And there were questions about John Adams. If you read Dave McCullough's biography of him, there were questions of him age really being an issue and I think he would have been like late fifties, early sixties. So we have an age minimum to run for president and I'm just wondering if maybe it's time to look at a maximum. I mean, you're in air traffic control. What's the age where they start to force you into retirement in that age?
Chris Virgilio:So the month that we turn 56, that is our last month that we can be an active air traffic controller.
Jason Schuler:Because, scientifically, people begin to lose a step cognitively after that time period. So why then would we think it's a good idea for the leader of our country to be in his 80s, which one of these two men will be after this election From?
Chris Virgilio:day one, yeah, of the next term.
Jason Schuler:From day one of next term until you know the last day of their term. We're choosing between two guys that are essentially in their 80s. Like we wouldn't trust them to be an air traffic controller, but we're going to trust them with the future of our free nation. It's a little bizarre that we would do that.
Chris Virgilio:Sort of the hopelessness part of the whole thing is there's definitely an inertia built into the whole political sphere. I think sphere I think the leviathan, if you will of politics that just there is such an industry built up in it where there's so much momentum created from media, from political action, committees, all the money, people, all the stakeholders, if you will, the big players that everything is geared towards pushing them into the spotlight and making them the people that are going to be there come election time. You know there's an industry in this. It's not by accident that these people become our candidates, the political parties and whatnot. They have favorites.
Chris Virgilio:There's so many things that push into this and we're talking I'm talking mostly presidential elections, but it's starting to trickle down to the, to the, to your, obviously, your congressmen, your senators, your local politicians. Even, in a lot of cases we're starting to see, like in Texas, how many there's been a couple of huge, like better O'Rourke elections, where they're pumping tens of millions of dollars into these things, where you would not have seen those, where they're pumping tens of millions of dollars into these things, where you would not have seen that level of money in those kind of elections before. And I think he's run for everything under the sun pretty much at this point, but it seems like there's a lot of people who are interested in seeing certain people get into certain positions and it really has an air of inevitability to it, if you ask me.
Chris Virgilio:So from a Christian's perspective, it's really hard to—Aidan was saying. I think we've all sort of said it to one degree or another—it's really hard to see any sort of principle that you can really get behind in any of this because, obviously, first of all, we're talking about human beings.
Chris Virgilio:Not a single one of them is perfect in terms of the representatives that we have, the choices. Even if there's some sort of referendum, a measure or something like that whatever we call them in North Carolina propositions in some—I think that's what we call them in California but anything that's a direct vote, even nothing is going to be perfect. Nothing is going to make every single person happy, nothing's going to make every Christian happy, every non-Christian, every Muslim, every whatever. There's nothing that is one size fits all, a good policy across the board, and I think that I don't blame someone for Aiden and Aiden. We're using you as the representative for your entire generation.
Jason Schuler:Don't mess it up Unfortunately.
Aidan Brooks:It's okay, I'm okay with that, yeah.
Chris Virgilio:We could probably do a lot worse, I'm sure. So it's really. I don't blame him for feeling that way, and I don't blame everybody who's just starting to pay attention or just becoming aware of what's going on politically for thinking it's a complete, utter joke, because it has gone nowhere but down in that direction ever since we were kids. I would say yeah.
Kyle Cox:Well, and if you're just trying to circle back to what we were talking about at the beginning with our children, you think back like when we were kids. Do you have the one person in your class who would be kind of a natural born leader and they'd be like, one day, I want to be the president of the united states of amer Right, and that was. It was something that they actually aspired to. It was it was kind of seen as the destiny, as a cool destination, as a job. And now if you ask one of my kids hey, you want to be the president of the United States I asked him one time like, hey, would you be interested? My, my older son, said no and I pushed. I said hey, why is that? And honestly, he basically what he could try to articulate was I don't want to deal with the nonsense that they have to deal with. And what he was trying to I think he was alluding to was some of the just the constant negativity in the fights that a president has to deal with from the other side. And he saw that and he's like I don't, I have zero interest in being that guy and and so like that's some of his personality, but I think it speaks to again.
Kyle Cox:What we were talking about is that this isn't a position that we highly regard anymore.
Kyle Cox:There's so much distrust and there's so much I would just say there's a leeriness to the position and to government and to authority. That's where, as believers, you're right. Our ultimate faith and our hope is not in the political system and not in a sinful person making decisions carte blanche. Our hope is in Christ and our hope is in him and at the same time we also want to train our kids that those in authority are placed there for your good, and authority itself is good, and we have to try and balance that so they don't just throw it away. Because I think that is something that can easily happen and I have seen it happen in younger people working with students, seeing people in school age. You know they just see authority in a different way. And I think that's kind of a trickle down of how we're handling politics now, because it has gotten just so just divisive. There's just a vitriol that just spreads between both camps and it's just ugly would you say that christians have a a duty to vote?
Kyle Cox:now like biblically speaking yeah I would tell you, if you're a Christian, you're not under a mandate from Scripture that you have to place a vote in America. Now, is it smart to? Is it wise to? Would you be leveraging the gifts that God's given you, living in a free country, in a democracy, where you're allowed to vote for your leadership, because that's a right that many people before you have not had? Then, wisdom speaking, you probably should, because you have the ability to. But oh, I knew this was going to happen at some point.
Chris Virgilio:I was excited about that possibility for those just listening, the lights just went out, yeah um do we need to like wave our?
Kyle Cox:somebody has to stand up, aiden, I vote you.
Aidan Brooks:I don't know where the censor is.
Kyle Cox:There it is, chris got it, nailed it, but yeah, I've served my purpose. But if you I mean, and I guarantee you, if this podcast reached the lights of day and we had an email set up, there will be somebody who emails and wants to throw verses at me and tell me that I'm wrong. But I wants to throw verses at me and tell me that I'm wrong. But I don't see it in the scriptures where Jesus is commanding you to place your vote. And if it violated your conscience to vote for one of those candidates, I'd rather I would. If somebody sat in my office as a pastor and was asking for counsel, I'd say if it violates your conscience, you've prayed about it. You can't do it in good conscience. I'm not going to force you to. That'd be my answer.
Jason Schuler:Well, there were. I mean, in Jesus's day there was no vote. Yeah, like you, you didn't. They would have loved the privilege to vote. Oh yeah, but I I agree with you. I don't think there's a clear command for scripture to vote. But if you don't vote, you have zero right to complain about the outcome of an election. Like if, hypothetically, you feel like, as a Christian, I'm going to vote for Trump, I'm not going to vote for Biden, and then election day comes and you throw your hands up and say, forget it, my vote doesn't count, and then you don't vote for Trump. Biden wins the election.
Kyle Cox:For the next four years. You don't have any grounds to complain about anything. You can't be on Facebook the next day. Oh, this president's the worst. Don't be that guy.
Chris Virgilio:You didn't vote. Your comment capabilities disabled.
Jason Schuler:Great, now we're stuck with this guy until he's 85. Well, that's tough. You could have gotten out and voted. You had the right to do it. It's an American opportunity that you have that so many other nations don't have. And in Jesus's day, the Jews could not have voted out Caesar. It wouldn't have worked. And so do you have to vote? No, I mean you don't have to, but you do have to keep your mouth shut if you decide not to and you're displeased with the outcome, because you could have had the opportunity to effect change and you chose not to.
Kyle Cox:Yeah, I think that's the wisdom part of it. You, as a believer, have to utilize the wisdom in knowing you have the ability to be a part of something and part of the system, whether or not the system is perfect, whether or not the system is broken, but you have the ability to take part in it. So you have to. You have to try to do what you can but, like Jason said, if you did end up, don't be on Facebook the next day. That's probably been the most disheartening part of watching the election cycle the last couple of years, especially with the rise of social media simultaneously is just the amount of believers that just enter into that space and they just let go of everything and no filter, no filter and probably damage their Christian witness more than they ever could in person you know.
Kyle Cox:So I think that's just something for us as believers we have to be really mindful of our online presence and, uh, election year is a year where I think you really I'm not saying walk on eggshells, but I think you have to be really aware of where you, where you are and what you're saying and how you're saying it. That matters, it does, and especially when it's just in words on a screen that can be snipped, pulled out of context and and shaped and however the hearer or the reader wants to see them. I think you just really have to be wise as a believer in how you do that.
Chris Virgilio:Yeah, I think there's a whole lot of things about being a Christian that are just even saying the word Christian and in a political sense it doesn't have a lot of meaning because In a political sense, you're just, there's a huge spectrum of where people fall politically that call themselves Christians In a political sense. You're just. There's a huge spectrum of where people fall politically.
Kyle Cox:They'll call themselves in a political sense. If somebody who is a strategist walked into this room right now the fact that we're sitting in a church in a swing state they would make a ton of assumptions about us. Sure, and they would view us as a certain voting block. That would be for the red side of the party. That would just be immediate. They would just see us as a voting block. We're a demographic to be won over. We're not defined by our faith or our beliefs. We're defined by our voting record in their mind.
Chris Virgilio:Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I think that's a lot about how the strategy of a campaign works. I think you start calculating in terms of I can get this block, this is this many people, this block, it's all about these demographic groups and how many of them voted last election. How many do we think are going to vote this election? How many voted for me or for this side? How many voted for that side? Those are the calculations that go on.
Chris Virgilio:That really, in a lot of ways, I think, kind of influence a lot of the messaging, a lot of the commercials, a lot of the speech writing and all that kind of stuff. And it stinks to be in a spot where you are assumed to believe to vote this, this and this because you are this. And I think even there are a lot of people who probably don't want to be associated with people who would vote that way. So it's not a homogenous block by any means, and so I don't know that the word Christian, in political terms, has quite the meaning that maybe it used to. So I think that, moving forward, we'll talk kind of about the familial part of the politics.
Chris Virgilio:We all have families. We all have at least one other voter in our households, right? So what do you think in terms of how a household votes in terms of what does that mean in terms of our faith, biblically speaking? I wanted to take it in a little bit of a direction here with this part of it. We'll talk more about the actual family block in terms of is that something that you and your wives have conversations about? A lot of people do this. A lot of people do. We're two individuals. We will vote, however. We want to vote.
Jason Schuler:Yeah, I know families like that and I know families where a husband and wife will have different views and they will vote differently, and they don't talk about it, Like they don't discuss it because they have a difference of opinion.
Jason Schuler:There's no sense in fighting over it. Yeah, I'll tell you this quick story. So my wife's family when we we go to see them for Christmas every other year and this was a couple of years ago um, we were all together and this was. This was uh, I want to say it was like a Thanksgiving or something. It was right after an election and it was one of those conversations where we're in the car before and it's like we're not going to talk about this, we're not going to bring it up, we're not going to, we're not going to ruffle any feathers. We're with family, it's the holidays, there's no reason for this. And one of the kids was like it was like a kid. The kids were doing some kind of competition, like they were building something or drawing something, I don't remember, but we've been there a few hours and all these kids were together and they were making stuff and they were trying to see whose was the best and so they were taking votes on this and that.
Jason Schuler:And my mother-in-law, who is like one of the least controversial people I've ever known, comes into a room where all of us of varying political views, says did you guys vote? And we're sitting around thinking she's definitely talking about the election. You know, this election turned out really well for some in the group and not so well for the others. And everybody just kind of freezes and looks at her and she's like, did you vote? And we're like. I'm looking at my wife like we're not talking about this right. Like are we? Are we doing this? Are we talking about this? And she says, did you vote? The kids are having a competition. We can't determine the winner unless everyone votes. And we're like oh, oh yeah, we voted, we voted.
Jason Schuler:That was it and it's just. It's tense because you got people in the room who vote Republican blindly and you've got people in the room who vote Democrat blindly and you know Jesus could run for the Republicans and the Democrats would not vote for him, and vice versa, jesus could run for the Democrats and a Republican would be like I don't know about this Jesus guy anymore. It's crazy, but my wife and I we talk about it and to my knowledge, we've always landed on the same candidate because we are aligned with the views that that candidate most clearly represents. But I do know of families, husbands and wives that are split on where their allegiance lies and the views that are most important to them into them.
Kyle Cox:Yeah, I mean, I think my wife and I hit the same mark eventually. We may disagree on different ways, but I think when it comes to the final spot, the landing is we land on the same things. I think we both disagree with other people. I think what Jason just said like voting blindly. I think we both want to be informed.
Kyle Cox:I think we just want to have an open mind to you know, not just voting just because, uh, this is how everybody else is doing it, or what the expectation of other people might be, um, but we want to vote according to scripture, and I think. I think the big thing is like we don't.
Kyle Cox:Politics never really dominates the conversation in our home, and so you know, like I would rather my kids, you know, really be talking about about biblical ideas rather than political ones, because we all have seen those kids right Like I remember the kids I grew up with who the day after an election would be like championing so-and-so or talking about so-and-so, and it's like all they're doing is just regurgitating what they've heard at home. They have zero political view, they just regurgitate what they hear at home, and so I always took that to in my parenting style to be with my kids. Like my wife and I don't want to ever make politics our end-all be-all. We don't want to get upset about them. We don't want to make them such a center of passion that our kids are like wrapped up in who won the election. Election night came and went four years ago or whatever it was, and our kids were just like oh, we have a new president soon.
Kyle Cox:Okay, that's how this works. That's how it works, and like that to me, was a win, because, you know, I just don't think my elementary school age children really needed to care that much, cause at the end of the day, I want them to be able to trust that Christ is still on the throne and he is, and so if Jesus is still reigning, then it doesn't matter if it's blue or red, whoever's in the white house, whoever's got control of the house or the Senate, it's okay. It's okay. You know we, we are going to survive and, by the way, the church has survived. Like the church survived Caesar, it survives Herod, it survives Nero, it survives the Middle Ages, it survives all types of political systems, and the gates of hell don't prevail. So I think that's you know how we always kind of viewed it in our home. I don't know exactly where you wanted to go, chris. I feel like you had something you were trying were trying to be great answers.
Chris Virgilio:I think you wanted to go a different direction than maybe, but I don't know Well, to kind of, to kind of throw my sort of different perspective not perspective but experience and to wrap that that question up a little bit, I think, for for me, my wife and I, politically when we first met we're probably not nearly as closely aligned as we are now and I think for me even, I think, coming to faith, since, let's see, I'm going to say it was probably since the last election, officially, that my outlook on politics has changed quite a bit, not really necessarily the way I would vote, I think, but I would say before that politics was up here, maybe not the top, but it has come way down since then. And now here's a big election coming up and there's been several smaller elections since. But I think the weight that I give these elections now has just dropped precipitously. It is not even close. I don't think it's nearly as important and I don't pay as much attention to politics anymore. I keep my eye on things a little bit but I'm not nearly as immersed in, say, content creators, radio shows, any of that kind of stuff. I used to be way into that stuff and I'm not nearly as much. The stuff that I like to consume now has much more of a Christian worldview, I think, as its backbone. Maybe they talk politics a little bit here and there, but I'd say that has shifted quite a bit Now.
Chris Virgilio:My wife has kind of shifted a lot too, and I think this is something that kind of naturally happens with couples and Jason, you work a lot with younger couples. I think there's a tendency for two people if they're you know, this is the divide politically or whatever as they get married and they have kids and stuff, I think they tend to kind of funnel together into someplace that's a lot more unified. I guess I don't know, maybe not 100% obviously, but I think having kids especially changes your outlook, and religiously obviously. I think one thing my wife said is she became, she started taking religion a lot more seriously when we had kids, and I think she knew that that was, she was already thinking that before the first kid was even born, and I think that. So I think there's a whole lot of things that change in your life when you have a family, when you get married.
Chris Virgilio:It doesn't obviously take effect on everybody, because not everybody makes that change, but I think there are a lot of different things to think about and that's one of the things that I like about the show that we're doing here is we're kind of talking about things that I think are going to align with that idea a lot but and try to sort of shape how how people make their decisions. But I think in terms of the family stuff, I think talking with kids and everything around this time of year is probably good Gosh, even seven-, five and three-year-olds like I've got. My three-year-old will not understand one bit, but my five-year-old is probably going to think that she's running for president next, sure why not, so you know she's helped them understand that these people are not the best of society.
Chris Virgilio:These people are not who we should be worshiping. These people are not—they're going to make some big decisions for us, but they're not the most important things in our lives and we shouldn't look at them as such.
Kyle Cox:Let me ask you one thing that you said stuck out to me. So you look back and you were immersed. You said, and like you, really enjoyed politics and watching stuff, what, like what was?
Kyle Cox:do you think the draw? What drew you in so much was? Was it so much? I guess the two things I can think of. Maybe there's a third option that I'm not thinking of, but one would just be you cared and believed that whatever happened in the outcome of that election would dictate the course of our country or, and by design, maybe the course of your own life as a part of that country. So you had that care. Or was it just because it was just entertaining, like was there an entertainment value to it? That keep you drew in so what? I don't know what was it? Because I feel like that's what most the first one I'd say. I'd say I mostly.
Chris Virgilio:I think it's nice to have an idea of what is going on around you, like what other people are doing and thinking and what might be coming in the future. I mean, I guess, following politics in a way, you can kind of make some predictions as to what might happen or how some people might react to certain things or maybe the direction that things are moving in. I don't know that it really did me any good, to be honest. It probably actually, if anything, brought me to Christ more.
Chris Virgilio:There was probably more of a driving factor in that than anything else, just because some of the people I was listening to were starting to talk about Christ and religion and stuff like that. So there was like a sprinkling in, like they mentioned it a little bit and so it gets you kind of thinking well, maybe I should try to figure out a little bit more about that. You know, and I think I don't think that that is probably most people who are not believers will not listen to political content or look at that and get that out of it. I don't know what it was special about me. I'm weird like that, I guess. But yeah, I wouldn't say it was entertaining.
Chris Virgilio:There are some individuals, political commentators, who are you know, one of them is not alive anymore but people who were entertaining to listen to and they were huge. They're these bigger-than-life people who, even when they're gone, they still have lasting effects. But in the long run, I don't know, did it really do any good? I don't feel like I don't know that being all that immersed in the political stuff really makes me feel better now, because it's just a weird race and it's getting so. In a way you can liken it to being really, really deep into sports and to knowing all about the minutia. I mean there's there's certain sports that we love and we like we like to think we know a lot more about that than some other things. Right, I think we can all all three of us can probably say that, but I don't know that politics is really as healthy to get that kind of deep level into.
Kyle Cox:Yeah, I can see that.
Jason Schuler:I think, as it relates to couples, I feel like the longer you're married, like the longer you're with someone, the longer you're together, the more closely you have to align on certain issues, or else the relationship suffers. Like, for instance, if you're you're running two lines that are perfectly parallel and they're they're staying the same distance apart. You know that works for a period of time, but generally when you're together for a long period of time, they start to line more closely to one another, like in how you raise kids and how important religion is going to be, because if they start spreading and getting further and further apart, the relationship suffers. And so I feel like what I've seen with couples is everybody has a different experience, everybody has a different background and you either want to parent like your parents did, or you definitely want to parent like your parents did, or you definitely want to parent the opposite of what they did.
Jason Schuler:And everybody comes into a relationship for parenting kids with a different paradigm of what they think is going to work best in their family, and mine and my wife's are different, but they're similar enough to where we don't constantly fight about it and we've been together long enough to where she knows how I'm going to respond to something and there's a tone that she can use with our kids.
Jason Schuler:That when she gets to that tone, I know okay, this is my turn to step in and let the kids know that mom and dad are on the same team with this and you're going to be fighting with both of us. I, you know, for instance, classic example which my kids do to us all the time is they will ask mom for something and she says no, and I'm upstairs or in another room and I hear her say no, and within moments that same child has come to ask me for the exact same thing, in hopes that I'll say yes, Because then mom and dad don't have a problem with the kid anymore. Now mom and dad have a problem with each other and they've wedged themselves in the middle. And so I see my kids do that and they're so manipulative. And it's funny because I see my four-year-old do it and it's kind of cute and comical. But then when I see my nine-year-old do it, it's like okay, you know better.
Aidan Brooks:You're manipulating me when.
Jason Schuler:I see my 11-year-old do it. It's like, okay, let's have a conversation.
Aidan Brooks:I'm on to you, buddy. I'm on to you.
Jason Schuler:It's cute when they're toddlers and it's not cute when they're teens. Nope.
Aidan Brooks:No.
Jason Schuler:And the older they get, the more they should know better. But I think the same is true as it relates to politics, with a husband and wife that may not align exactly together. I think the longer you're married, the longer you're together, then the closer your interests align with one another, because that's just showing you, you know, growing in relationship with each other, growing in relationship with each other, and as you try to become more like Christ and your spouse tries to become more like Christ, you value the same types of things. So back to the political scene. This is something that I'm stealing from an interview on a podcast I heard when Kerry Newhoff interviewed Tim Keller years ago, and Keller was so unique because he was so theological and he was so biblical, but by the same token, he was pastoring in New York City, which was heavy Democrat country, very political, and so one of the things that Keller said is he said there are four political issues that Jesus addressed and you could take two of these and swear that Jesus would have been a Republican, and you can take the other two and swear that Jesus would have been a Democrat. And the four issues are these, and they were true in Jesus's day and they're true today. And the first two are the Republican points. And if you're watching, if you're watching us, our lights have gone out again. Aidan, it's your turn to thank you.
Jason Schuler:So here are the first two is the issue was pro-life and the second was the issue of marriage and sexuality. And if you take Jesus' standpoint on those two issues, you'd swear Jesus was a Republican. Because you know a lot of people talk about the fact that Jesus didn't condemn homosexuality. But he didn't have to because he affirmed marriage. I mean, he said in the Gospels that it was for this cause that a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife. I mean, he affirmed traditional marriage in the Gospels so he didn't have to go rogue like Paul did in Romans 1. Jesus didn't have to do that. He affirmed what God said about marriage in the very beginning. So Jesus would have been pro-life, Jesus would have had a traditional view of marriage and sexuality, and so those are the two issues that Jesus would have capitalized on that Republicans would say amen, that's our guy.
Jason Schuler:And then the other two issues that Jesus was big on was racial issues and racial divides. Well, that's a democratic issue, and Jesus also wanted to take care of the poor and the marginalized. There's another issue that aligns more closely with Democrats, and so what Keller was brilliant in his life of doing was he was presenting these four issues not as well. You must be a Republican and you must be a Democrat. It was. Jesus took these four issues and they were big in his day and they're still political issues for us today, Because I don't see racial issues or the poor and marginalized to me as significant as the other two, which are traditional marriage and sexuality and pro-life To me.
Jason Schuler:I see those issues as more paramount than the other two. But the Democrat would say well, I mean, you just hate this certain ethnicity of, or you're just obviously not poor, You've never been marginalized. You don't understand it, and I would have to see that point and open a dialogue and discussion on it. So that came from Keller, those four things, and it was a tightrope that he had to walk in his church, in his area and in his day. And I think we have to be wise when we look at these two, because the Bible has something to say about all of these things and I think it depends. I think it comes down to priority, where you're going to place the higher priority on issues is really how you're going to align more politically because of this.
Chris Virgilio:Right, that's interesting just hearing you go over those, those, those four categories. I can already think in my mind I can rebut all four of them in terms of, okay, well, maybe this is more of a democrat issue but republicans this you know. Or maybe these two are more of a republican issue but democrats this I can think of kind of counters to all four of those. But I think by and large you're right, those those four would kind of fall to all four of those. But I think by and large you're right, those four would kind of fall the way they do.
Jason Schuler:Yeah, and there are outliers for every person, every position and every experience. But I mean, when you break down those four and you resort to Scripture for each of them, the Bible had something to say about each of them. I mean, when you think about James 1.27, that pure religion and undefiled is to visit the fatherless and the orphans and the widows, it's like okay, well, jesus did care about the poor and marginalized. Jesus did see race as an issue, because the New Testament, even Paul's writings, are pretty clear, but he had an issue on pro-life. He had a stance on marriage and sexuality as well, and so you know, it's easy.
Jason Schuler:It's interesting to see that in our culture today, we still break up into factions as to what we feel like the most important issue is, and when it comes down to it, we're not particularly, I think, in our generation Aidan you could speak differently of Gen Z but we're not so much in love with either candidate or either party so that we would sell our souls for this person or this party to be back in power. It's like what do these people stand for? How does it align with Scripture? Is there a day when someone who has voted Republican their entire life could vote Democrat based on the issues. I think there is. I think that we're seeing a clear differentiation on I'm no longer going to vote for this party only or this candidate only. I'm going to vote according to issues and I think you could see a more diverse group of candidates coming up in future elections. What do you think? Gen Z guy.
Aidan Brooks:I think that's true. I think a lot of the just sitting here thinking about my own opinion, a lot of it. Obviously, the specific issues like we're talking about are very important and I would say that's kind of the paramount thing for me. But then a lot of the times, even if I have a candidate that agrees with that, I agree with some of their positions and some of them not. It usually comes down almost more to the personality, I think for a lot of us younger people. So it's like I can't vote for X candidate because they are a really flawed, imperfect person, which I guess it's important to realize that we're all flawed, imperfect people and we can't expect a politician to be a perfect person, not more imperfect. But I guess you could say more publicly and almost purposely trying to show that they're doing wrong. Right like it.
Aidan Brooks:The politicians we had today don't seem to be putting in a lot of effort. To be liked, I guess is what I would settle on, like donald trump especially. I think that's that was one of the big reasons he was elected, because he didn't care what people thought he was going to say his mind and he was just going to do it, no matter what people said about him on the news. And now Joe Biden. I think he cares a little bit more, but still I think he's getting to the point Part of it may be his age that he's just going to kind of do his thing, regardless of what people say going to kind of do his thing, regardless of what people say.
Chris Virgilio:Yeah, I think, in terms of picking the real choice, I think comes more in the primaries for these things than it does for the general election, obviously because it becomes so binary. Like, we kind of started off saying I think you have two choices, basically right. And if you really want to get kind of nerdy about the whole thing, it's kind of like a two-point swing. Right, it's a plus one for one candidate if you vote for them and it's a minus one. There's a two point swing involved if you do decide to vote, and I think that's that's why the third parties and stuff like that are generally not all that popular. It's because, like there's that's, that's a minus one for the other side one way or the other, and so you are affecting the election.
Chris Virgilio:The binary choice by not voting for, by voting for somebody else, is kind of it's kind of a weird way to think about it. But I, I don't. I don't think that I have. How I vote in the primary is completely different than how I vote in the general I have. I will not have voted for either of these two guys a single time in a primary. When, when, when we're all done actually, well, I guess we are done with that part of it now. So we, when we're all done Actually, well, I guess we are done with that part of it now, because we can't see them again. We don't have a chance to vote for any of them, I guess if somebody doesn't win this one, they could try and run it back in 2028.
Aidan Brooks:They probably will.
Kyle Cox:Technically there was no At that point, we're looking at him as a 90-year-old in the presidency. Possibly. What stands out to me something that all three of you guys have said, you know, there's a point at which we could foresee a Republican becomes a Democrat, or vice versa, where a Democrat becomes a Republican. When you were talking about Aiden, like when you observe the candidates and you hear them talking, they don't really care if they're liked by other people. What I think, though some comments that you've seen from both sides, where they realize, uh-oh, I could lose this thing they start to change their tune on certain issues. All that to be said is what this reminds us of in this system is people change and people are not constant. So if you place your faith in people, they will let you down for that very reason. They're going to change their mind at some point, or they're going to be strong against you know, abortion one day, and then you'll ask them again a couple of months later and they're trying to win. They see a demographic that's slipping out of their hands. So they go.
Kyle Cox:Well, you know, I mean, I think it could be somebody else's decision, or maybe we could lessen up about. Well, hold on now, what do you do? Because if you throw all your eggs into that person's basket, you just aligned yourself to say I believe in them, no matter what they do. Well, hold on, they might change one day. Do you still believe in them?
Kyle Cox:And that's where I think you know, teaching our kids, reminding ourselves, reminding each other. Politicians change, people change like the wind, and yet Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. And that is why, for my kids, like I don't care who's in office, I don't care who you vote for, you know when it comes down to it, because, at the end of the day, if your faith is in Jesus, he's the only one that is going to be the same in 20 years, when we have—maybe we have a 50-year-old or we're running it back with 35-year-olds, I don't know. I mean, jason, you and I are eligible this year. I don't know why we haven't talked about this on the podcast. This is where we should have started.
Kyle Cox:You've got two guys who, for the first time ever in their existence, are eligible. I mean, if you wanted to push your write-in vote do it now to our audience of many.
Jason Schuler:What is the?
Kyle Cox:eligibility is it 35 35 born in america yeah, you're there, check, check. Yeah, so schuler 2024. I mean that that isn't on the ticket but no, maybe 2028.
Jason Schuler:Okay, I'll have to get some funding together. Go fund me, go, fund me go fund me for 2028.
Kyle Cox:Start now but no, I that. That's just. That's what sticks out to me this whole conversation is that these things all change. Politicians change their stripes because they have to. Donald trump changed his stripes, right, let's all go back. He's been in the public eye for a long time. Yeah, go back to the 90s, right, when he was in public eye, he wasn't a Republican. No, no.
Kyle Cox:He's found himself to be a Republican now, but he'll change some of his tune. Joe Biden, if you look at his voting record back when he was in Delaware, even when he was the vice president, what some of the things he said under Obama? Some of those things are different today.
Jason Schuler:Oh, he was anti-abortion at one point. He's a Catholic, he's a Catholic.
Kyle Cox:So yeah.
Jason Schuler:These guys flip-flop.
Chris Virgilio:I'll tell you, obama was too.
Jason Schuler:Yeah, and these guys are going to continue to flip-flop. And I'll tell you what a lot of Republicans would hate to hear me say this. But as a Christian who works at a church, I mean, you say what you want about Trump's stance on abortion, pro-life, Is he with us Some days yes and some days no. But here's what scares me about Trump getting into office the national debt is just growing at an exponential rate, and he is a businessman, he is a problem solver, and look at the numbers. The economy was better under Trump than it is under Biden.
Kyle Cox:And there's no debate.
Jason Schuler:Look at anybody's pictures of what gas prices were the day Biden took office. I mean, say what you want, the economy was much better under Trump and I would imagine if he were to get elected, the economy would rebound and be better again than it is now. However, it's not going to get. We're not going to see an economic culture and an economic boom under four more years of Trump. That's going to get us out of national debt, and so I don't know if this is a hot take. I've thought this for a long time.
Jason Schuler:With Trump, I think the Christians are going to be the ones that push him over the edge.
Jason Schuler:Come out and vote and Trump's going to win.
Jason Schuler:In November he's going to get into office and, I believe within a year of him getting into office, I think he's going to turn his back on the Christians that got him elected, and I think he's going to come after tax-exempt status of churches and property tax of churches, because you look at the amount of property that churches own and what they could pay in property tax and sales tax that the government is not getting.
Jason Schuler:He could make a significant dent in our national debt if he comes after tax-exempt status for churches and that goes away and paying property tax. There are churches who own property of, you know, upwards of 50 plus 100, plus acres. Like you're looking at property value, our property value at this church where we live, where we're situated what's on our street, what's across the street, what's in our area, like our church alone would be paying a significant amount of property tax on a yearly basis. That would hamper us in a way where we would not be able to hire and maintain the staff or the budget that we do and that would hurt us personally. And there's not a church in America that owns their land that should not be concerned about that. And so I could see him using the Christian vote to win the nomination and win the presidency and then turning on the Christians that got him elected to take away their tax-exempt status, their property taxes, which is an instant boom to the economy toward the national debt. And then we're all like, oh wait, what have we done?
Kyle Cox:That's a fascinating idea. I had never thought of it that way. But you know what I'm not saying? We're not saying it's going to happen because we have no idea.
Jason Schuler:I hope Trump's not listening, because it's a terrible idea. I just gave him the best idea to get us out of debt.
Kyle Cox:But you know, what's scary is that, whether it's him or Biden, what do they really care about what happens after them? Because their political careers at that point are over. I mean again, we're not trying to be morbid, but their lives are almost over. At that point, and to go even a step further, I mean Trump himself. He doesn't have. I mean he has political connections that he's created, but he doesn't have any loyalties to the Republican Party to that degree.
Jason Schuler:He has no loyalties.
Kyle Cox:Where he has to worry about what happens after him and what state he leaves the reputation of, like, the Republican National Convention. He doesn't have that Joe Biden same thing Like. At the end of the day, he'll be a career democratic politician, but at the end of the day, if he wins the election, what do we say? He'll be 85 by the time, or when he ends his term, or when he takes office. So again he, he's ready just to literally go on to greener, green pastures, I mean. So again, I'm not trying to be sick about it, I'm just the reality is neither of these guys they're to be serving a second term of some type. They don't have any allegiances, so they don't have to set up for future success. And they can burn bridges all they want. I mean that bridge, the Christian bridge in the Trump camp. He could burn it. I mean, what does it really matter to him? He's in office and his legacy.
Jason Schuler:If he burns that bridge will still even. If that fails, will still be.
Jason Schuler:Hey, when I was in office, I overturned Roe v Wade, which was in place since the 70s and if he's successful, he will be known as the president who overturned Roe v Wade, who rebounded the economy after a Biden administration meltdown and who put a significant dent in our national debt. I mean, we've had national debt forever and if Trump comes in with something like that and pulls it off, like you're right, he has no allegiance to Christians or states or party or whatever, but his thing is ego. For better or for worse, it's ego and for him it's legacy. And you look at what he would hang his hat on after a second term as president where he pulled something like that that decreased our national debt from however many trillion to put us in the billions. Could you imagine if he were to pull something like that off? That's legacy and that he will burn all of the bridges it's fascinating In order to make that happen, yeah, and that's why this whole thing is uh, I don't know.
Kyle Cox:It's a it's a fascinating thing to watch because we just don't know what the what all of this is going to entail and who, you know who's really going to make a decision one way or the other. I don't know. I honestly think today, where we sit months away from the election, it's honestly I don't have zero confidence one way or the other. I think I could make an argument for one winning and I could make a strong argument for the other winning and flip a coin and there we'd be. That's where we're at. It's going to be fireworks one way or the other, it's just annoying. And flip a coin and there would be that.
Jason Schuler:That's that's where we're at, and uh it's going to be fireworks one way or the other. It's just annoying. I think that the takeaway for me in this conversation is um, I think I think, regardless of your kid's age, if they're at the question, if they're at the, the age where they're asking questions about politics, I think you should have an honest conversation with them and do so from a biblical standpoint. You know, we're not voting for a pastor, okay, we're voting for a political leader. We're voting for a president who, regardless of who they are, they will be significantly flawed, and every politician that gets even close to this stage is politically flawed and personally immoral to some level. They had to get there at some point to get to the level at which they are, and I think you have to have an honest conversation with your kids. Politically on, there will never be a perfect reigning culture until King Jesus millennial reign, new heaven and new earth, like that's what we're looking at, and everyone else until then is going to be flawed.
Jason Schuler:And do you have a responsibility to vote? Maybe Do you have a clear command from scripture. I don't see it either. You can't complain if it doesn't go your way, but I think you got to have honest conversation with your kids because, like it or not, you are effectively training the next generation of voters and you want them to be Republicans. Do you want them to be Democrats or more so? Do you want them to vote based on biblical principle? So, do you want them to vote based on biblical principle? And the biblical principle is going to outlive the Democratic Party, the Republican Party and every president that any nation has ever had.
Kyle Cox:I think that's the thing, that if we can train our kids, what Paul says in Philippians 3, is that we are citizens of heaven. Like that's where our citizenship is placed. You may have a passport from the United States of America and it may say that you're a citizen of this country, but Paul always took it a step further and said no, no, no. Your first identity is you're a citizen of heaven. And if you look at the Apostle Paul's life, he would leverage his Roman citizenship when he needed to, but he always knew that was only for the sake of the gospel and furthering the gospel. So he wanted to always have God's kingdom placed first in his life and everything that he did. And that's what we have to be training. I think that's one thing that I see.
Kyle Cox:If you're looking at it generationally, I think you're seeing a bit of a split, so to speak, in the church, where we are distinguishing what you just said that politics and religion are separate, that we don't marry the two, we don't marry our political views into our biblical identity, that you can be a believer and vote this way, but your biblical identity informs how you vote. It's not the other way around, that your political identity informs your religiousness or your gospel belief, and I pray that that happens, because I think if we can train our generations to come to think that way, they'll love their country that they're in, they'll care about the people, because that's what they would see is that God commands us to love others and care for the brokenhearted and the needy and the poor. So we want to see them flourish. We want to take care of the vulnerable, we want to take care of the disenfranchised, because we love people, because God loves them and they're created in his image. That's what we want to see. So, therefore, we love our country for those reasons, but we love Christ more and we know that he's the answer.
Kyle Cox:And whatever we are going to do is going to be to leverage more people to meet their savior, because their greatest need is not their physical needs being met, it's first their spiritual need, and that's what we want them to know. So I think that's where we want to go and that's hopefully what we want them to know. So I think that's where we want to go and that's hopefully that's what our churches are, and our church as well, are training future generations to do, because I think previous generations, those lines got blurry and I think now, because it's getting easier and easier to distance yourself from some of the nonsense that politicians say, as a believer, you're starting to distance ourselves from political parties and candidates Not everybody, but I think hopefully that's where we're headed.
Chris Virgilio:Thanks for listening to the Fatherhood Striving Together podcast. Be sure to follow or subscribe to catch future episodes. Consider leaving a five-star review and look for more future content coming soon.
Kyle Cox:Thank you guitar solo you.
