Fatherhood - Striving Together
"Fatherhood - Striving Together" is a podcast dedicated to empowering fathers to lead their families with wisdom, strength, and faith. Hosted by three Christian fathers, including two pastors, the show explores the challenges and joys of fatherhood, offering practical advice rooted in biblical principles.
Each episode delves into essential topics like mentoring the next generation, building strong marriages, and guiding children in a rapidly changing world. Whether you're a new dad, a seasoned father, or someone considering fatherhood, this podcast is your companion on the journey of raising a family that thrives in faith and love.
Join us as we strive together to build homes on a solid foundation, where each member is nurtured and guided to live a life devoted to Christ. Discover insights, share experiences, and be a part of a community that believes in the power of fatherhood to shape the future.
Fatherhood - Striving Together
Building Character Through Youth Sports
How can sports shape your child's character and your family's dynamics? In this episode, we tackle the fundamental lessons and values that sports bring to the table for both kids and parents. From the resilience built by not letting kids win easily to the joy of shared passions and the life skills learned through team sports, we cover it all. We also highlight the importance of maintaining perspective, ensuring that sports remain a source of fun and growth rather than becoming an overwhelming focus.
American youth sports have evolved significantly, and not always for the better. With a heavy focus on commercialization, the financial burdens of travel leagues, and the impact on family life, we offer a critical look at today's sports culture. Through personal anecdotes, we discuss the balance between competitive travel leagues and recreational play, advocating for a middle ground that provides good competition without breaking the bank or monopolizing time.
Finally, we address the pressures and motivations driving families into the high-stakes world of youth sports. From the financial strain to the emotional toll, we explore how parents' aspirations can sometimes clash with what's truly best for their children. We also examine the intersection of sports and faith, and how sports culture might replace traditional community roles. Join us for this nuanced discussion, as we call for a balanced, healthy approach to youth sports that prioritizes the well-being of our young athletes.
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I'm not letting them win. You know I'm going to strategize and do what I can, and it fuels them. I love to see the passion that it fuels in them to lose and then come back and try something different the next time, whether it's a board game, an athletic competition. Because I want to instill that in them now, because there will be the day that my kids can beat me and I'm not letting them win. And that day has not come yet and I still think it's a few years in the future. But the day's coming when my son's going to be my size or bigger and my skill level or better, and I can't wait for that day.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Fatherhood of Thriving Together podcast with your hosts Kyle Cox, jason Schuller, chris Virgilio and producer Aiden Brooks.
Speaker 1:I grew up in a home where sports was awesome and I loved sports as a kid. I loved sports as an adult kid. I love sports as an adult. This is the time of year when the NBA and hockey are both in the playoffs, and so I will find time to watch a sport and follow just about anything. So I love sports. I've been, I've done all sorts of things in sports in adult life, as far as volunteer and coach, parent, spectator, and I love all those things. But I learn a lot of lessons about myself watching sports and being involved in sports and you know, as a dad, I've learned more lessons, I think, from my kids than my kids have probably learned from me. That's how I feel when I watch them handle situations and that is no exception on a sports field or a court. And so, yeah, I love sports and I love being involved in sports and I love seeing my kids get involved in sports as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, same for us. Like our family's really into sports as a whole, whether it's playing it together or they're on teams or whatever's on television. It's playing it together or they're on teams or whatever's on television. I mean really all all three of my kids, my wife included. We all enjoy joining in and watching sports together, whatever's on now, some more than others, right, I think. As I got older, so I enjoy watching. You know the competition level. I enjoy seeing good competition.
Speaker 3:But I think as you get older, especially when it comes to watching sports, I think you're more into like the storylines. I think I think like watching the stories of people and triumphing in different avenues or with different backgrounds, or overcoming obstacles, or the way that this team was constructed versus the way that this team was constructed, and then you have, like these two, almost like cultural identities that clash right, and so that's really fun for me as an adult to watch. When it comes to my kids in sports, I think it's part of that what I enjoy for them is learning the different things about life that they can kind of seize from a team sport. None of my kids play individual sports not that there's anything wrong with those and I think you can get a lot out of those. But I think, like, team sports just bring such a unique dynamic to your life and add so much just lessons that just can't be learned in a classroom, even sometimes in the home. Like, I think there's just things that you know only happen in a field, interacting with your peers and with a coach. That is unique to the sporting element, that can teach children so many different things.
Speaker 3:So that's why we love sports for our family. But then I think, in terms of how do you use them? Well, right, like that's always the tension that you live in as a parent and especially as a believer you want to just make sure that you're not making sports the idol that it can become, because our culture definitely has right, like you know, and I'm part of the problem because I consume it, because we consume this commodity and we've elevated it, which is why everybody complains why do these guys get paid so much? They get paid so much because we all watch and that's just part of the cycle and I'm part of the system, right, but I love sports and I don't ever want to see them go away, but I think always keeping them in their proper perspective and balance is so important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the, the one of the best lessons that kids learn from sports is not not obviously just winning, like how to win. That's obviously one of the big things is that I think you can really apply to life later is how to, how to learn new skills, how to how to grow, how to reach goals and stuff and try to win. I think the endeavor to win is the most important thing, but also how to lose. I think that's the really important thing. I mean, we'll play like Candyland or Chutes and Ladders or something with our kids and man, my little daughter, if she loses, she is not happy about it, right? So I think sports, any any sort of competitive thing in general, I think, is a really good place to teach, to teach those sorts of lessons, and they're they're big ones.
Speaker 1:I mean, how to, how to lose is yeah is like do you take it easy on your kids when you play them in sports or board games? That's a great question, you let them win from time to time.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay yes, that's good. So I mean there's, you can go either way on that. I mean, yeah, I think when they're very young and they're just starting, having nothing but failures, as the outcome is, is not very encouraging, right? So it's not really it's it's really about I mean coaching or teaching or being involved in any sort of sports from a young age. I think is mostly about trying to cultivate the fun aspect of it, letting them enjoy the sport, as opposed to it just being something that I did, I win or did I lose, and if I lost a bunch, well then I stink and I just need to quit, or something like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you definitely want to nurture it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because you don't want to kill it at a young age. I think, as you start to see your kids get older and I know your kids aren't there yet, our kids are, you know, similar in age and you get to almost the middle school and soon to be high school, varsity aspects right. It then becomes where, when do you make the switch to focusing on the competition level and taking it serious? Because I think you know I never want to sound like the old oh, this generation kind of guy, but I do think there is a fear of you don't want to be the try hard is what everybody says, right, so you don't want to be that guy, but at the same time, like you have to teach, like there is a certain level of seriousness that you should take to this.
Speaker 3:And serious doesn't mean it ceases to be fun. You can have fun while taking it serious. So it's like what? When do we bridge? That gap right I wouldn't do it with your three-year-old and shoots in ladders, right. But then as you start to look like what is the age, what's the range, does it, it, does it change for everybody?
Speaker 1:where does, where does that line exist that we start to really say, all right, let's take this seriously I think it's different per family and per kid, for sure, but so my kids are ages 11, 9 and 4, and so the four-year-old, if we're playing like if she can win, she's going to win and I I'm going to let her win and all my kids I did like that, but my older two that are 9 and 11, I'm not letting them win, I'm going to strategize and do what I can and it fuels them.
Speaker 1:I love to see the passion that it fuels in them to lose and then come back and try something different the next time, whether it's a board game, an athletic competition, because I want to instill that in them now, because there will be the day that my kids can beat me and I'm not letting them win, and that day has not come yet and I still think it's a few years in the future. But the day's coming when my son's going to be my size or bigger and my skill level or better, and I can't wait for that day, you know, because I I love to see the growth, I love to see the competitiveness in my kids. So I I didn't answer your question because I don't know. I think it's different for every kid and every family, but I definitely like breeding a competitive edge and spirit in your kids and not breaking that when they're really little now have you guys?
Speaker 2:I'm sure you've seen this. There's, there's always kids who, whatever level that you're at, are ahead of everybody else, right? There's kids who's maybe their, their parents played or they coach or something, and then they for some reason have sort of a head start on everyone else. Um, then there's the kids that look like they've maybe never even seen the sport before, something like or something you know similar to that. Is there? You think there's anything about maybe being a parent who pushes your child from a super early age to excel? Is there anything maybe bad about that? Or should we all be striving to do that? Or is it sort of just a natural start to a new sport for your kids?
Speaker 1:So I read this article recently and I brought some notes with me on just this topic and we can link it, I guess, in the show notes to this article. But here's the. This is a San Diego Union Tribune article. That was. It's about two years old and the title is Norway's hands-off approach to youth sports might explain why they're so good when they get older. And just a couple of statistics the American youth sports machine is an industry of $19 billion a year. That's 19 billion with a B. That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:And this article it's not a long read but it talks about all the great athletes that come out of Norway and in the end it says, whatever the United States is doing, norway does the opposite. And this whole article talks about the fact that they're so hands-off. Like, my kids play in just a basic rec league and the heart of that league it's Christian-based, it's at our church, but the heart of that league is for kids to have fun and learn how to play a game Like that's it, and it's for kindergarten, all the way up through about middle school and that's the heartbeat behind it. It's not competitive, it's not very expensive, it's not driven by competition and there's a championship. I will never forget this.
Speaker 1:But when my son was this is probably three or four years ago he was playing basketball and I was his coach and you know coaches are not paid, they're volunteers. And he's playing against this other team and the coach on that team his grandson was on the team, so his dad and his grandfather of this kid were basically the coaches, and this kid was bigger than the other kids, but he was also very skilled. He was a good athlete, but he never passed the ball to any of his teammates. Now that I think about it, I think your son was on that team.
Speaker 3:He was on that team. Yeah, he was on that team.
Speaker 2:I know exactly who it is. Never got the ball.
Speaker 1:And his son was good and there were other kids on the team that were good players and they never got the ball. And this kid would get the ball at the top of the three-point line. And these are seven and eight-year-old boys, okay. So just to give a scale as to who we're talking about, his grandson would get the ball at the top of the key and he would put his back to the basket and dribble and back down the kid all the way and you can't double team, you can't switch and he would back him down to the basket. He would pick up his dribble and turn and shoot and he would make it almost every time. And so toward the end of the game like my kids are getting frustrated because we're losing his kids on his team, the other four players were getting frustrated.
Speaker 1:You can see parents getting frustrated, and it was toward the end of the game and the son. So it's the grandfather who's coaching. The son is also coaching and then the grandson's on the team. The son says to his dad who's the head coach hey, maybe we should have him pass the ball. And he gets in his own son's face, this grandfather, and says to him I'm trying to win a championship. And I remember hearing that as a coach of my 8-year-old son thinking what are you talking about? There is no championship, there's no tournament, there's no trophy, there's no league prize. What are you talking about there?
Speaker 2:there is no championship, it's gonna go on the back of his sport, as a basketball card at some.
Speaker 1:Why are you doing what you do, and this article talks about that.
Speaker 1:It's just the fact that youth sports in the us is driven by egos and money, but in norway and a lot of other countries it's driven by fun, and so I I could share more stats from this and we'll link it in the show notes.
Speaker 1:But I think we place so much of an emphasis on youth sports in America, so much so that, as a Christian, you know you see parents of young kids that will pour their lives into some travel league or some AAU league or some tournament, and you know they're not really making great grades in school, they're not really attending church anymore, they don't come to youth activities, things at church, and so you are communicating a message to your children about where your priorities are and you're communicating yeah, god is important and family's important and school's important, but sports is the most important. Sports is God and our family, and I think there's a huge danger in our culture of letting it go that direction and placing so much of an emphasis on sports that it becomes a detriment to the family unit and the spiritual aspect of each family.
Speaker 3:Gosh. Yeah, there's so much to unpack with youth sports and I think in that article talks about it, and you could go down this rabbit hole for a long time. But the industry that youth sports has become, it's a money-making thing and just money ruins the fun of it. It just takes the fun out of it. I mean, if you think about it, you know, like our grandparents when they were playing sports, they probably played at their high school and and I guarantee you that our grandparents high school games had like the best atmospheres because that was the one thing that everybody showed up for. Nobody's loyalties were divided between oh, my AAU basketball team or my club soccer team or my travel ball team that I'm going to play baseball for. Everybody came and it was like this community event, right and slowly, as we try to professionalize children into these club things, the attention gets divided, the money goes to other places and so all of a sudden, you know it kind of ruins and it sucks the joy out of it to a degree and almost to the point.
Speaker 3:My wife and I were talking about this recently like we wish that there was like a middle ground, like we were looking for our son to join like a travel soccer team here in town and there's all these different tiers. He could try out for it. He has to try out now for what will become in the coming fall that team. And then it's a commitment from fall to the following spring. That, like that's a huge commitment and if he makes the one team, there's gonna be certain financial commitments that we as a family would have to say that we're signing up to do so. There's the extreme and then there's the travel and obviously the bait of it all is well, he's going to have higher competition, he could get noticed, and that's always dangling the carrot in front of the parent and the kid, the reality being, like you know, the statistic is probably like 0.01% of all kids in youth sports in America are ever going to play professionally, you know, and the sack goes up a little bit for a college scholarship because there's so many levels of college now, but but still the the idea being like, so he could go that direction or he could go the super fun rec way, which he's at an age now where he's starting to want to be challenged and compete and so he doesn't want to just play with kids who are just learning the game because he's a couple steps ahead and so he wants to find guys who are his level of competition.
Speaker 3:Where does that like for a family like ours who wants to? I want to give him the opportunity to grow his skill. He enjoys the game, but I also don't want to go down the route of putting our family into financial ruin because we're going to be traveling regionally and sometimes nationally, you know, and make this commitment a year in advance Before we ever see the field. We'd have to commit to this if he made that level of team. It's just really hard, and so it's like man, we as Americans, the field, we'd have to commit to this if he made that level of team. That's just really hard, and so it's like man, we as americans, like we don't have the middle ground, like where does that exist? Where it's good competition but it's not ruined, where money hasn't sucked the fun out of?
Speaker 1:it. It doesn't exist. And when you hear a phrase like financial ruin of a family, you're thinking, okay, that's a bit extreme, but it's a $19 billion industry. I mean people are paying, you know, you know, usually starter level for like an AAU program or a travel sports league at kids' age that are like 10, 11, 12, 13. You're looking at about two grand starting to play in a sports league and that does not include some tournament fees to play in a sports league and that does not include some tournament fees.
Speaker 1:Imagine paying two grand to see your son play soccer in a city four hours away. He's got a three-day tournament. You're paying two nights in a hotel and then you get to the game and they charge you admission to get in to the tournament fees you've already paid, the league fees you've already paid and the hotel room that you just checked out of. So when you hear financial ruin, you think, ah, that's kind of a stretch. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't have two to four grand to just throw at youth sports for one of my three kids and it's not even the whole year, right, right.
Speaker 1:And so tell me this guy's name. You're more of a soccer guy than I am, so when you said Norway his name.
Speaker 3:You're more of a soccer guy than so when you said norway.
Speaker 3:His name is erling holland. He is he's a machine. Um, if you're a professional soccer watcher, he's norwegian, he's like 21, 22 and he is an absolute mountain of a person and he holds crazy records already for goal scoring in england, playing for the top team in england for the past two or three years. He's he's unbelievable. He's a product of that and, by the way, like norway soccer team is one of the rising powers in Europe. They're young and up and coming, but they're part of the generation that comes out of this, what exactly this article talks about. So, which is fascinating, that the success is coming. Now there's a lot of other dynamics. As somebody who I love European sports because I love soccer and so so their models of youth sports and their uh, the pyramid, that kind of in the flow that gets people to the higher levels, is so different from ours.
Speaker 3:It's it's night and day. So you could spend hours and days talking about the differences there. But it is really interesting to have just the best guy right now in england in the top, you know, arguably the top soccer league in the world. He's just dominating guys. Can't stop him from scoring goals. Um, and he comes. He's a byproduct of this, which is interesting. You know one thing I'll just tack on with the financial piece.
Speaker 3:Just a couple days ago I was talking to another dad and a friend of ours who his son plays soccer. Um, he's only, he's in middle school, he's not at the highest level yet, and I know this guy, he's a decent kid, decent player. Um, their team won a regional tournament and before they showed up to play in the final that they ended up winning, they had to, as a family, commit to traveling, if they win, to a game in Texas, all right. So for regionally, for us that's a couple. A couple that's an airplane ride, it's not a couple hours drive, so it's a. You commit to that beforehand. So there was almost like a down payment you had to make and then it's a stay and play kind of rule when you get down to texas. So you're going to go to a hotel that they're going to choose for you. You don't have the you don't get to.
Speaker 2:You know like a contracts set up. Yeah, you don't get to. You know They've got contracts set up ahead of time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you don't get to look at Expedia and shop or Priceline it and be like, oh, I'm going to grab that one, or just go to the motel down the street. You go to the hotel they want you to play at and if your kid's team continues to win, you continue to pay per night and stay.
Speaker 1:That's wild. They just keep your credit card on file, oh absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's a crazy industry really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so that's like the industry part that is just taking and it sounds so sinister and maybe we sound a little cynical about it, but to be honest it's like I just really wish there was a little bit. I don't know, that you've lost the innocence and the beauty of it to a degree and money ruins that. I could talk about sports for a long time too, and but like college sports in america got ruined by money. You know now I'm a graduate of the university of maryland why in the world is my school in a conference with teams from oregon and california and washington state makes no sense, you know but that. But now we are right because money has created this new climate that they have to swim in, because they have to exist. But I just think that's like the innocence part of it that that stinks. You know so much, which is an interesting like kind of turn.
Speaker 3:I was curious to hear how you guys so so that's what the kids want to compete. What do you think it is? Because obviously we've talked about it's a sacrifice for families to get involved in this. Why are families counting that cost? And sometimes that cost is so high. What is it that keeps them going back to that and making these sacrifices for the sake of that opportunity. What do you guys think, think you know, is the the reason why families are counting the cost and going, yeah, we'll put it in?
Speaker 2:well for me, the I come from california, silicon valley and the volleyball world mostly it was is most of my more competitive uh experience, especially as a coach. I coached out there for 12 years I think before, before moving out east and I was a coach. I coached out there for 12 years, I think, before moving out east and I was a coach of those power we call them programs, but that's the travel stuff basically, and you know we'd play tournaments in Las Vegas, washington, colorado, texas, all the way to the East Coast sometimes and those were the travel tournaments, obviously. But locally even I mean, california is such a huge state you go four-plus hours to get to some of these events and those are the local ones, right, but I think volleyball there is a huge, huge sport.
Speaker 2:There's a ton of participation and I think in that I can't speak to all scenarios, but in that setting I think a lot of it's sort of a keeping up with the Joneses sort of thing. It's like my kid wants to play volleyball, well, what are all the other kids that are playing volleyball doing? And while they're getting on this team, and then it becomes sort of an arms race to who can like when tryouts come around who can get to the best team and who can, who can get to the club or the program that has the maybe the best reputation, or they, they that people think are the winners. And sometimes it's not even about what is best for for my child in terms of you know, where do they fit the best, what kind of team, what kind of travel commitment. It's not about that, it's just about the status symbol. I think maybe it's something to tell the other, to brag to the other parents about, or something I don't. I don't know. There's, there's definitely an aspect of that, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's definitely part of it. And the first thing I thought of was ego and pride. Uh, which is what you said? Keeping up with the Joneses, I think the second thing that comes to my mind is living vicariously through your kids because of maybe personal unmet expectations, like maybe there's a drive in them because I was not the shortstop, my dad hoped that I would be, but maybe my son can be that. Yeah, I think it could be living vicariously because when you you go to a youth sports game, it doesn't matter the sport or the age group.
Speaker 1:You understand so much about the kids, based on the parents who are on the sidelines and how they conduct themselves on the sidelines, and so, you know, I try to be the fun dad that's like, hey, I want my kids to play everything, I want them to have a good time. You know we're not in this for the travel aspect or the ego. My kid has never, to my knowledge, been the best kid on the field in any sport that any of my kids have ever played. And you know, like what you were talking about, 0.001%. The chances of any of my kids becoming a professional athlete are so small and it was because my wife and I were not professional athletes, like I already had these kids at a disadvantage because I wasn't there. I mean, you look at all the pro sports players right now and that had a mom or a dad, and sometimes both, who were professional athletes or Olympians, that had a mom or a dad, and sometimes both, who were professional athletes or Olympians, like you. Look at Steph Curry and Pat Mahomes and all these guys that had one or two parents that were crazy athletes or Olympians and all this stuff. And it's like you know, genetically my kids are already at a disadvantage. So I want to be a realist on what my expectations for them are, and so I think that's part of it.
Speaker 1:Erling Haaland began playing soccer. Does anyone want to guess how old he was when he started to focus on soccer? Before that, he participated in handball, golf, tennis, track, cross-country skiing and he dabbled in all those things until the age of 12. He was 14., 14., 14, wow. He did not start playing soccer. He didn't focus on soccer and start playing it exclusively until he was 14. And soccer's?
Speaker 2:like the. That's the sport that everybody plays first. It's the world game, yeah, especially in countries, because you can do it when you're four.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially in countries like Europe and Latin America, south America, it's the world's game. Yeah, especially in countries like Europe and Latin America, south America, it's the world's game. And so, when you think about one of the greatest soccer players in the world right now, did not start playing soccer until he was 14. Like, what kind of a lie have we bought into in the American sports dream that my kid at seven has to be playing in this travel league? No, he doesn't Not, according to what these guys are doing. And so, yeah, I think it's ego, I think it's pride, I think it's parents trying to live vicariously through their kids because of some unmet goal or expectation that they had or their parents had as a dream for them. I think it's multifaceted. I think there's a lot of reasons why we're in the predicament that we're in, but I think I think parents need to take a step back to realize why am I doing what I'm doing? Am I putting my kid in this league for them or am I doing it for me? Am I doing it for my parents? And the disappointment that I was for not making it pro and being able to buy my parents a car Now maybe I can get my son or daughter in the door for some kind of professional gig someday. I think it's.
Speaker 1:Let me read you part of this article too. Research has confirmed, through a 2013 comprehensive study, that they found that prepubescent specialization does not increase the chances of becoming an elite athlete, but one thing they did find is that it does carry higher rates of injury, mental stress and burnout. It concluded that for most sports, such intense training in a single sport to the exclusion of others should be delayed until late adolescence in order to optimize success. Erling Haaland would tell you the same thing. All of the Norway athletes would tell you the same thing. But you won't hear that in American youth sports because it would cost us $19 billion.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, full disclosure, though Erling Haaland's dad, alfie Haaland, was a professional soccer player. So, genetics do have a part in this and all that.
Speaker 2:This is totally anecdotal, but it seems like the athletes who go on to be pro athletes, who had the pro athlete or the high-level athlete parents they're not generally the ones who are grinding it out, you know who are just just doing everything, working their butts off to just try to barely make it up to that level they're. Those aren't usually the kind of players they turned out to be. They seem to be the all or nothing sort. They're either going to be they're going to go all the way and they're going to be at the top, or they're you're just not going to hear from them again yeah, and I I tell my kids after a game when they don't play their best game.
Speaker 1:I try to be encouraging and it's like hey, listen you, you are everything. You were supposed to be out there. If you left it all in the field and you gave it your best, then that's all I've asked of you. You know, I want you to have fun, I want you to give it your best. And if you didn't give it your best, you know, let's try harder. You know next time. But I don't expect you to score all the goals and hit all the shots and be the MVP of every game.
Speaker 1:My son right now is playing soccer and he's actually on Kyle's soccer team and he plays with both of Kyle's kids that are in that age group. And this past Saturday there was a controversial call. Now, this is a church league and our referees are volunteers and they're good people and the guy who, in my opinion, missed the call I did not let him know he missed the call because there were other parents that were informing him that he had missed it but he's a good guy and he goes to our church and here's a guy who is retirement age and he's out giving his life to referee youth soccer on a Saturday. I'm not going to give that guy one bit of criticism for reffing our kid's game, but there was a call that it didn't involve either of our kids, but it was on our team. It was a kid who had tried to score all game and he had this beautiful goal and the parents went nuts, like our team went crazy. We were. We were up a goal and that was going to put us up two goals, I think. And he had the ball for a minute and then he shot it and they called him offsides. And it's like you, you can't. If you have the ball, you're not offsides. And I I, from my vantage point it's like you can't. If you have the ball, you're not off sides, and I, from my vantage point. It looked like he was on, but there were parents that were right on that line that said that he was on and so that it got waved off and I felt like the guy missed the call. And then, instead of stopping the game and having a free kick, he just let play continue, and so our team's out celebrating their team is still playing and then they get a goal to tie the game. So now, instead of us being up two. Now we're tied and our team was totally defeated and demoralized and they gave up another goal or two and lost the game.
Speaker 1:And here's what. Here's what is so important for me as a dad is on the drive home, my son wanted to talk about the call. My son wanted to talk about the goal that they got shafted and how that game was garbage and we got cheated out of a win. That's what he wanted to talk about. But I wanted to talk about other plays that he was responsible for in the game. There was a play when he saved a goal earlier on defense, and I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1:And I want to talk about the fact that people are human and I think there are so many life lessons that we miss in youth sports because, as parents, we're so driven and so focused on winning and success and our kid being the best, and we care about that some for them, but mostly it's for us. It's for our pride, it's for our ego. Hey, you see that kid out there, that's my kid. He had a hat trick last game. That's what we want to say.
Speaker 1:We want to say things like that and I think in doing so we miss opportunities to shepherd our children and guide them into a real life conversation, and so that's what we try to do is hey, let's have real life conversations. Here's a guy that's giving his Saturday. He's retired, he doesn't have to do this, he doesn't need this, he's not making anything for this and he's out here doing his best. Let's not focus on what he did wrong. Let's focus on ways we can be better. What can we take away and learn as a result of this game and I think that's where we need to go in. Youth sports is not the development of the athlete, but the development of a child and the development of someone that was created in the image of God, that we want to become an adult that loves Jesus and loves their family and serves God with their lives.
Speaker 3:One thing I was thinking about too. I think what's really attractive about the youth sports, especially like the travel ball culture, I think for guys, for men like of our age, when you see your kids participating, it's a community that you. That, for guys, I think is very attractive because it's low commitment, right. Like I get to see all these guys, these other dads. I get to see them once a week maybe, or a couple times on the weekend, right, and there's no real serious conversations. We're at a sports game, we're watching, we can disagree together, we can get angry together, we can celebrate together, we can do all of this life together and then call it, call it see you next week. You know, there there's no like we have to really spend a lot of quality time, have these deep conversations and the meaningful conversations, or we have to even have conflicts other than maybe, hey, your kid's getting ahead of my kid and then maybe we'll just switch teams to get away from that. And I think, as believers, like one thing that I think this shows is there's always a heart for community within people. Like all people want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. The church is supposed to be the number one aspect of that community for you outside of your home.
Speaker 3:But I think the youth sports culture taps into dads specifically, who can have some of the things that the church is supposed to be for them, but they can have it on their own terms, kind of in a safer space, in an entertaining space when you're watching sports, which, again, if you get to some of these high-quality I'm sure some of those volleyball tournaments you did like that's good stuff, like these are high-quality athletes, like yeah, they're not on television but if you love the sport you can respect what you're seeing is good competition, good athleticism, right, and I think that is attractive to men. And so I think that's the other thing. Why some if we go back to the original question of like, why is it that they families are willing to sell the farm to go? You know, give it all for esports, put it ahead of church, put ahead of all this, because church community is hard, church community requires accountability and and it's not as easy, there's conflict and there's disagreement and and it's to some degree I'm not going to say it's, it's not, but there are men who would say a sermon on Sundays not as entertaining as watching a baseball game or a volleyball match or a soccer game, so there's a level of entertainment and community surrounding that that I think that taps into the psyche of why people are so into it as well, and I think that's for Christians we have to really think about like be careful, be careful what you make Christian, or, sorry, what we make you sports.
Speaker 3:It might be replacing something that God has already ordained and designed, something in his structure that could fit that mold for us instead that's an interesting, interesting point.
Speaker 2:yeah, I think, um, when you were talking about the, I think the, the, the specialization, I think the, the tendency to push kids into playing one sport, or yeah, like year round, maybe in school, outside of of school, just everything I think is it's like, it's like they, they put this idea in your head of like this is the outcome my kid can be, can, can get a college scholarship for this, and it's like everybody kind of hooks on to that, that sort of narrative of what they think that the whole story can be, of what they think that the whole story can be.
Speaker 2:And so then it just really becomes this whole process of what do I have to do to feed that narrative, what do I have to do to make sure that we get to that end? And it's like all of a sudden you get locked into all of these choices where you have to keep paying, you have to keep spending more time, you have to keep going further and further just to get to that end point that you kind of already predetermined, maybe years ago, is the place that you want to go. But maybe that's not what the kid wants to do. Maybe you know, maybe that's, and maybe that's not even the right time or place for it, and when you specialize on one sport, whether you choose it or your kid does like.
Speaker 1:Imagine from the perspective of that child the pressure that is now on them. Like I have to make this team. My family has committed to this. They're riding on this. I have to do, I have to perform well, I have to be the best at my position in this league in order to succeed. Like the pressure that we're putting on kids, regardless of if they're 5, 6, 7, or 13, 14, 15.
Speaker 1:Like I love probably my favorite sport to watch is college basketball and what. What I love during the NCAA tournament and the ACC tournament we're in ACC country here. I just I love watching the competition and anybody can beat anybody on any given day in the tournament. But when the game's on the line and a kid steps to the free throw line, it doesn't matter how highly they were recruited or what kind of NIL deal they have, Like they're on the free throw line, there's a bunch of pressure and you have to rationalize this is an 18 or 19 year old kid. You have to rationalize this is an 18 or 19-year-old kid.
Speaker 1:You look in the NBA and you've got guys that played maybe a year professionally in Europe or in college and now they're in the NBA and they're 19, 20, 21. Anthony Edwards in the playoffs right now, 22 years old. I mean, these are very young people and you don't realize that because they're making millions of dollars. Young people and you don't realize that because they're making millions of dollars, but the pressure that you put on a student athlete or a kid in our case, like it's immense pressure when you're like, okay, you're going to specialize in this Baseball, soccer, football, those are all done. You are a basketball player and this is what you will be the rest of your life. Like it doesn't matter how much they enjoyed pitching, that life is done. It doesn't matter if, if they could tackle really well or or catch a 40-yard touchdown pass, that life is over. This is what you're doing now. Um, it just. I think it just puts some undue pressure on children. And for what?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think that's where, like, perspective has to show up again. And it's so hard because that's where we get drawn in and we lose perspective a lot of times. It's like when you get into the weeds of something, you lose the big picture because you're just stuck down on the, you know, granular level. But that's the perspective that gets lost is that it's this chasing the dream, and all the competition and all the excitement and the money, that it's an investment. So all of that comes back to being this is it?
Speaker 3:This is the pinnacle of their childhood, when really you know they'll probably have some moments that they'll they'll cherish on the field or on the court, but those things will not weigh in comparison to the different things. Like you know, as an adult, some of the wins you get in life far outweigh where you're at, where you were as a kid. So I think it's the perspective part that we lose. And, and, man, if we're the adults in the room, as the parents, right, as the dads, like, it's up to us to maintain the proper perspective. Like, like what you said to your son, like yeah, he's a volunteer referee, right, and so that's a great lesson to remember. Like that's who he is.
Speaker 1:He's not getting paid for this. He's a good guy. He didn't have money on this game, you know, and it's not what it is I know the guy.
Speaker 3:I think he he doesn't know the sport that well. He probably read the manual they handed the volunteers the beginning of the year. Maybe he skimmed it Our producer's laughing because our producer's the director of the league, so he may have skimmed it Aiden, we need to get you on that. But at the same time he's out there trying to do his best and he's doing it for the good of the kids and the ministry that it is. And so, yeah, the perspective of that is so valuable and not losing it and, at the end of the day, I guess, the real perspective, because so many guys that I've grown up with, kids that I've watched grow up in the church and other people who I've just known about, how many times do we hear the story of this great athlete had the world at his fingertips.
Speaker 3:And it's one moment, one moment in a game and acl or his knees gone and he's never the same.
Speaker 3:Or a freak accident that doesn't even have to happen in a game, good to happen.
Speaker 3:Walking down your steps in your home and there goes your achilles tendon right and and suddenly everything that was right around this kid and his family is gone in a moment's notice.
Speaker 3:And really, when you think about it that way, I know that sounds really kind of sad and depressing, but if you really think about it on that level, would you really want to wrap your whole life around something that could be taken in an instant like that? Like perspective-wise, that sounds kind of foolish If you put it that way. And again, I'm coming at coming as somebody who loves sports and I coach high school sports and I've got I've got guys on my teams that one of them's going to play college ball and I'm so excited for him and I hope he does great. And I've got other kids who wish they could play college ball and they may never touch a soccer ball again. But in all those cases like that's not the ultimate in their life and I think that's right that we have to continue reminding ourselves first before then we can give it to our kids so we can have them have that proper perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I look back at all my experience with sports, being a player, coach, official, all of those things. Hopefully soon parent don't have any kids that are in sports yet, but they they're asking. I think the things that I remember the most are not the wins and loss records. I mean, we've won stuff, sometimes lost stuff lots of times. You know most how many teams actually win at the end of the day, One right Out of however many. But uh, I think the most important things that I remember are just the, the friends that I made, you know, the experiences hanging out with, with teammates.
Speaker 2:Uh, as a coach, I I think some, some of the things that maybe a player says to you like that there's some things they just say that's just like they're really grateful for something that you did. It's like, oh my gosh, you know how often do you you don't hear that enough as a coach. Or even, or even something a parent says or something that you see another kid do with your kid, or something you know there's just some sort of interpersonal, relational thing that has nothing to do with actually playing the game. Maybe are the things that I remember the most and I think I take back with me and I look back fondly the most.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's necessarily the wins. Obviously wins are huge things, that really big ones you don't forget, right, and those are fun stories to tell and everything. But I think all of the competitive anything I've done, most of it has just been the experience, the people I did it with and, I think, the journey. It doesn't matter about the winning at the end. Thanks for listening to the Fatherhood's Driving Together podcast. Be sure to follow or subscribe to catch future episodes. Consider leaving a five-star review and look for more future content coming soon.
